Used Pressta Eisele Cutting Machine for sale (65,738)

Year of construction: 1997, condition: used, Saw blade diameter vertical and horizontal: 500 mm Bsdpfx Afox Ecg Uoxedc Max. profile height: 280 mm Max. notch width: 300 mm Max. latch height: 185 mm Max. latch depth: 185 mm Pivoting material stop with locking points and digital display Motorized latch height adjustable with digital display Motorized adjustment of the angles with digital display Hydropneumatic material feed via 2-hand operation Pneumatic material clamps coolant lubrication

Condition: used, Max. punching force: 100 kN Bdjdpfxjxrmz Ae Afxec Adjustable stroke, max. 50 mm Stroke activation via foot switch Weight: approx. 600 kg

Condition: excellent (used), Year of construction: 2017, functionality: fully functional, Fully automatic operation Drive 7.5 kW, S6, 400 V, 50Hz, 2850 rpm For use with saw blades D 550 mm Cutting range 270x140 mm (width x height), D 185mm Max. profile width 270mm Control unit with display Including piece counter Including reversing device for a maximum cut length of 3000mm Automatic shut-off via limit switch when material ends Bedpfx Ajyvtyvefxodc Hydropneumatic saw blade feed, continuously adjustable, from bottom to top Vertical and horizontal clamping units, on both infeed and outfeed sides of the saw head Pneumatic dosing spray device Cutting gap extension on both sides of the saw blade Electronic material feed unit 3-600mm feed length, with ball screw spindle and servomotor Including pneumatic horizontal and vertical clamping device Remnant piece from 75mm, depending on profile 2 extraction ports D 100 mm Safety guard over the saw head and feed unit A suitable extraction system can also be offered!

Year of construction: 2020, operating hours: 55 h, condition: like new (used), PCM longitudinal and cross cutting machine / available immediately Manufacturer: PCM Year of manufacture: 2020 Type: Industrial cutting machine (123.20 / 123220CE) Function: Longitudinal + cross cutting Power: 20 kW Power supply: 400 V, 3 phases Frequency: 50 Hz Rated current: 30 A Control: 24 V DC Protection: IP55 Operating hours: 55h Pneumatics: 5–6 bar Cutting unit: multiple (≈5 pcs) blades Material handling: automatic centering, conveyor belt Production speed: 0 - 20 m/min Sheet width: 2400 mm Maximum material width: 2200 mm Maximum material thickness: 20 mm Bdodpey Exndsfx Afxjc Blades: (diameter) 300 mm

Condition: new, functionality: fully functional, Year of construction: 2025, laser power: 12,000 W, sheet thickness steel (max.): 80 mm, sheet thickness brass (max.): 80 mm, table length: 3,000 mm, table width: 1,500 mm, travel distance X-axis: 1,550 mm, travel distance Y-axis: 3,050 mm, travel distance Z-axis: 290 mm, workpiece weight (max.): 1,400 kg, input voltage: 380 V, input frequency: 50 Hz, type of input current: three-phase, total length: 9,100 mm, total width: 3,120 mm, total height: 2,200 mm, warranty duration: 24 months, working range: 3,015 mm, Equipment: centralized greasing system, cooling unit, documentation/manual, dust extraction, emergency stop, fume extraction, nozzle changer, safety light barrier, All New Full Cover Fiber Laser Cutting Machine | GS-CE/ GS-CE PRO Series | 3000-60000W MACHINE AVAILABLE ON HAND The machine can be loaded into a container. This GS-CE series FULL COVER FIBER LASER CUTTING MACHINE offers maximum safety for metals cutting. Thanks to its full cover structure and protective glass observation window, you can observe the operation and avoid hazards such as laser radiation, sparks, etc. It also has a fast exchange table, and the exchange is within 10s. It will be your ideal solution for safe and efficient metal cutting! Working platform size: 3000mm*1500mm, 4000mm*1500mm, 6000mm*1500mm, 6000mm*2500mm; Laser power 6KW-80KW CNC system: FSCUT Max. Acceleration：2.8G BOCI cutting head Intelligent anti-collision function Bsdpfx Ajub Nwdjfxjdc Automatic lubrication Schneider relay Laser fault alarm Cooling fault alarm Laser protection glass Water cooler TÜV CE certificate Optional function: automatic loading and unloading system Control unit supports graphic formats: AI, BMP, Dst, Dwg, DXF, DXP External programming System complete incl. cooler, extraction system and safety light barriers Demonstration machine as good as new

Year of construction: 2025, condition: new, functionality: fully functional, High Speed · High Precision · High Stability The VS series high-speed laser tube cutter for small pipes has arrived! This machine features a high-precision chuck system designed specifically for tube cutting. With excellent sealing and dust protection, it delivers clamping accuracy within ≤0.1mm Bdedpfxswwzudj Afxoc ideal for ultra-precise small tube processing. The chuck rotates up to 160 RPM, with acceleration reaching 1.5G, easily enabling high-efficiency processing of small-diameter tubes. easily enabling high-efficiency processing of small-diameter tubes. it supports true ultra-short tail cutting saving cost from the very beginning. Available in 3000W and 6000W, Handles square and round tubes from 10mm to 120mm in diameter, Also capable of cutting angle steel, channel steel, and I-beams A true all-rounder for small pipe fabrication. Supports automatic or semi-automatic loading Effortlessly enables smart and automated processing. One machine replaces three workers — A powerful and efficient tool for small pipe manufacturing!

Condition: new, functionality: fully functional, Year of construction: 2025, laser power: 1,500 W, positioning speed: 80 m/min, repeat accuracy: 0.03 mm, input frequency: 50 Hz, warranty duration: 24 months, working range: 6,000 mm, Equipment: cooling unit, safety light barrier, G-12A HIGH SPEED PROFESSIONAL TUBE LASER CUTTING MACHINE 1500-3000W The G series is equipped with many high-quality components with extreme performance and powerful cutting functions,suitable for tube cutting of various types and diameters ● The Highest Standards of Chucks in the Industry ● Two Methods for Fewer-tailing Cutting ● Variable Diameter Wheel Supporting ● Automatic Unloading Device ● Super Dust Removal System ● Patented Dust Baffle ● High-strength Cage Structure Welded Machine Bed Technical Parameter: Power: 1500W-3000W Maximum Tube Processing Size: 6000mm*φ120mm Max. Rotating Speed of Chucks: 160r/min X/Y-axis Positioning Accuracy≤0.05mm X/Y-axis Repositioning Accuracy≤±0.03mm Maximum positioning speed: 80m/min Max. Acceleration: 1.5G Round Tube Processing Dim: Φ10mm-Φ120mm Square Tube Processing Dim: 10mm*120mm Overall Dimensions: 9000mm*2700mm The Highest Standards of Chucks in the Industry The highest standards of chucks in the industry with strong clamping force, high rigidity, high speed, and stable performance Two Methods for Fewer-tailing Cutting Support two fewer-tailing cutting methods , choose one of them on the software interface according to different tube diameters Chuck double jaws: standard double jaws, small tube cutting precision is guaranteed Support: 2 sets of variable diameter wheel support standard (optional to increase to 3 sets)/optional servo support Unloading: [3M/4M] cylinder unloading rack/optional-[3M/4M] servo unloading rack/optional Loading: [Fully automatic loading rack/simple fully automatic loading rack/semi-automatic loading rack]/optional Dust removal: standard rear card hollow dust removal Short tail: chuck fixed, crossbeam fixed, short tail, front card open, rear card Continue to move forward, shorten the tail, ≥80 mm; if the short tail function is not used, the tail is about 200 mm Variable Diameter Wheel Supporting Bodpfjuc Sifjx Afxedc G Series has a wide range of cutting for various types and diameters of tubes, supported by the variable diameter wheel Automatic Unloading Device Efficient automatic unloading, saving time and labor costs, greatly improving production efficiency Super Dust Removal System The super dust removal system with ventilation design inside the chuck and the tube reduces the slag hanging in the tube, which is independently researched and developed by Glorystar Patented Dust Baffle Patented dust baffle protects important components from pollution and ensures stable performance High-strength Cage Structure Welded Machine Bed The industry’s highest-quality high strength cage structure welded machine bed with long life, anti-vibration, anti-torsion and anti-deformation

Condition: new, functionality: fully functional, Year of construction: 2025, laser power: 30,000 W, travel distance X-axis: 3,050 mm, travel distance Y-axis: 13,050 mm, travel distance Z-axis: 450 mm, positioning accuracy: 0.03 mm, repeat accuracy: 0.02 mm, workpiece weight (max.): 20,000 kg, input frequency: 50 Hz, total length: 16,800 mm, total width: 2,200 mm, total height: 5,120 mm, warranty duration: 24 months, working range: 13,000 mm, Equipment: CE marking, centralized greasing system, cooling unit, documentation/manual, dust extraction, emergency stop, fume extraction, safety light barrier, GS-CL Series, Glorystar Single Table Gantry Type Metal Laser Cutting Machine Laser Power: 12000-80000W Fits in a standard 40HQ container The GS-L Series is a high-power metal laser cutting machine with a gantry-type segmented bed design. It can be freely customized to meet processing format requirements according to customer needs. Bdjdpfevmwn Hjx Afxec Key Features: ● Super Large Processing Format with a gantry-style segmented design. ● The GS-L Series has the largest Z-axis travel and height in its class in the industry. Supports extreme thickness cutting for plates over 20mm. Capable of cutting ultra-thick plates up to 70mm. ● High Negative Pressure Automatic Partition Dust Removal ● Equipped with a high-air-volume fan for effective dust removal. Technical parameters: Working area (mm): 13000mm*3000mm（bevel cut: 12500mm*2500mm） X axis travel distance (mm): 3050mm Y axis travel distance (mm): 13050mm Z axis travel distance (mm): 450mm X/Y axis positioning accuracy: ≤0.03mm/m X/Y axis repeat positioning accuracy: ≤±0.02mm Max. synthetic positioning speed: 110m/min Max. acceleration: 1.2G Min. setting unit: 0.001mm Floor size (mm): 18500mm*6500mm Main body dimension (mm): 16800mm*5120mm*2200mm Worktable max. weight capacity (T): 20 tons (even load bearing)

Condition: new, functionality: fully functional, Year of construction: 2025, control type: CNC control, laser type: fiber laser, laser power: 3,000 W, Equipment: CE marking, centralized greasing system, cooling unit, documentation/manual, dust extraction, emergency stop, fume extraction, nozzle changer, safety light barrier, Type: Two chucks Groove function: Standard Bjdpfxjwwz Dlo Afxedc Power range: 3KW, 6KW Round tube processing range: 10mm~160mm Square tube processing range: 10mm~160mm Chuck maximum speed: 130r/min Machine weight: 3T Power specification: 380VAC, 50Hz Optional loading rack: G16pro-automatic loading, G16pro-semi-automatic loading Optional unloading rack: servo unloading rack, cylinder unloading rack Standard: System 3000DE-DH, including nesting, supports servo, dustproof (Y axis), dustproof (X axis), dustproof (Z axis), rear card hollow dust removal, short tail material Optional: safety fence (light curtain), radiation-proof glass

Condition: new, functionality: fully functional, Year of construction: 2025, control type: CNC control, degree of automation: automatic, laser type: fiber laser, laser power: 3,000 W, warranty duration: 24 months, Equipment: CE marking, centralized greasing system, cooling unit, documentation/manual, dust extraction, emergency stop, fume extraction, nozzle changer, safety light barrier, Working Area (mm): 3048×1524 X-Axis Travel (mm）: 1524 Y-Axis Travel(mm）: 3048 Bdsdexvwcxepfx Afxjc Z-Axis Travel（mm）: 80 X/Y Axis Positioning Accuracy: ≤0.03mm/m X/Y Axis Repositioning Accuracy: ≤±0.02mm Maximum Synthetic Positioning Speed: 150m/min Maximum Acceleration: 1.2G Cutting Slit Width: 0.1mm-0.5mm (measured for platesless than3mm thick) Cutting Surface Roughness: Ra3.2um-Ra25.4um(measured for plate thickness below3mm） Floor Size(mm): 6000*3000 Mainframe Dimension(mm): 5000*2300*1800 Screen Size: 21"LCD TransmissionMode: Rack andpinion dual drive Table Loading Capacity: 1.1(ton)

Condition: new, functionality: fully functional, Year of construction: 2025, laser power: 6,000 W, travel distance X-axis: 3,030 mm, travel distance Y-axis: 1,520 mm, travel distance Z-axis: 310 mm, total length: 9,500 mm, total width: 4,500 mm, total height: 2,050 mm, Equipment: CE marking, centralized greasing system, cooling unit, dust extraction, emergency stop, fume extraction, nozzle changer, safety light barrier, VS-3015CE 6KW FIber Laser Sheet Cutting Machine Working area (mm) : 3000×1500 X axis travel distance (mm): 1520 Y axis travel distance (mm): 3030 Z axis travel distance (mm)： 310 X/Y axis positioning accuracy ： ≤0.03mm\m X/Y axis repeat positioning accuracy： ≤±0.02mm Max. synthetic positioning speed: 150m\min Max. acceleration: 2G Double-sided control panel, adaptive multi-angle placement, simple disassembly, and can fit into a standard 40HQ container. Bodpfx Afsv Ngrasxsdc Industrial-grade special air conditioner, constant temperature and humidity for stable performance. Automatic grease and oil injection system, intelligent air pressure monitoring device, and anti-collision detection device provide intelligent protection.

Condition: ready for operation (used), Year of construction: 2008, functionality: fully functional, High-performance automatic sawing machine / Brand: PRESSTA-EISELE Type: Profilma 510 / Year of construction: 09/2008 Description: * High-performance automatic sawing machine with fully automatic operation, * Very high cutting accuracy, * Low cycle times, * Burdere-free sawing, * High reliability, * Low maintenance Suitable for aluminum and plastic, for cutting large quantities of small parts, length tolerance 1/10 mm. The automatic sawing machine can be inspected and tested by appointment. Previous use: Used for cutting corner connectors. Condition: Very well maintained, used, ready to use. Technical specifications: - Saw motor: 7,5 kW, S6 - Speed: 2.000 - 3.500 rpm - Cutting speed: up to 92 m/s - Material feed length: up to 1.000 mm / 5-fold reversal possible - Section length: from 8 mm depending on profile - Remaining piece length: from 90 mm depending on section length Bodpfxsw D T Uie Afxsdc - Working pressure: 6 - 8 bar - Power supply: Standard: 400 V, 50 Hz - Weight: 1.750 kg - Dimensions Length/Depth/Height: 2.700 x 1.400 x 2.300 mm Equipment: - Control via Siemens S7 panel - Fully automatic bar feed - Roller conveyors - Extraction - Chip bunker - Various accessories - CE marking There is no guarantee for correctness and completeness of the technical details and accessories.

Year of construction: 2019, condition: excellent (used), functionality: not functional, Compact hydraulic C-frame punching machine with 160 kN punching force for precise applications on smaller profile cross-sections. The torsion-resistant frame design ensures accurate punching in aluminium, steel or plastic. Bdedpfx Afey Agqnoxjc

Year of construction: 2023, condition: ready for operation (used), An aluminium mitre saw Eisele including a mobile extraction unit AS Sägetechnik is available. 1) Mitre saw Pressta Eisele GS 600, year of manufacture: 2023, saw blade diameter: 600mm, detent positions: 22.5°/45°/90°, mitre adjustment: 20°/-90°/-20°, material stop adjustment: 200mm, working height: 970mm, extraction nozzle diameter: 100mm, weight: approx. 650kg. 2) Mobile extraction unit AS Sägetechnik 460VT-2, suction nozzle diameter: 100mm, air flow rate: 1400m³/h, machine dimensions X/Y/Z: approx. 750mm/800mm/1800mm, weight: approx. 100kg. Documentation available. An on-site inspection is possible. Bedpfx Asw D Et Rofxodc

Year of construction: 1996, condition: good (used), machine/vehicle number: 9182, Offer 23168 Technical data: - Notching possibilities + miters in 3 planes - right-angled, one-sided + two-sided + three-sided oblique . - Can be used as a shift cut crosscut saw - Pneumatic profile clamping Machining with semi-automatic sawing units - Saw blade dimensions - vertical 500 x 3,5 x 40 mm positive Bdodpfx Afsmb U E Ajxsc - horizontal 500 x 3,5 x 40 mm negative - notching width / notching height at 90° 300 / 285 mm - vertical saw blade 60° - 90° - 25° mot. positioning with digital display - Swiveling range saw blade horiz. with vert. saw blade Saw blade - 45° - 90° - 45° mot. positioning with digital displays - Notching height adjustment with digital displays - profile stop shoulder manually tiltable 30° - 90° - 45° - pneumatic coolant check device - air connection 6 bar - drive 400 V / 2 x 3 kW - space requirement approx. W 2400 x H 2000 / D 1400 mm - weight approx. 1200 kg

Condition: good (used), Year of construction: 2019, machine/vehicle number: 250-19, Offer 25283 Technical Specifications: - Saw blade speed, frequency controlled, for very fine cutting - Saw blade diameter: 200 mm - Automatic operation cycle - Pressure stop with SICO counter for setting the glass pressing force - Simulation - Pneumatic connection: 6 bar - Drive: 400 V / 0.8 kW Bjdpfxsw Nhumj Afxsdc - Required space: approx. W 400 x H 1200 x D 700 mm - Weight: approx. 80 kg - Machine stand

Condition: good (used), Year of construction: 2009, machine/vehicle number: 9155, Offer 24245 Technical data: - Pneumatic feed of the milling unit - Work table height adjustable via handwheel - Horizontal and vertical material clamping - cutter diameter up to 300 mm Bjdpfx Afjtq Takoxedc - max. profile height 190 mm - max. milling depth 110 mm - max. milling length 400 mm - Angle-adjustable stop Li + Re 20 90 20 ° - milling spindle speed 2800 rpm - Drive 400 V / 2.2 kw - Compressed air connection 6 - 8 bar - Air consumption per work cycle approx. 10 l - ELGO digital display for material cross stop - Pneumatic profile clamping - Spraying device - Space requirement approx. W 1100 x H 1500 x D 700 mm - Weight approx. 300 kg

Condition: good (used), Year of construction: 2019, machine/vehicle number: 252-19, Offer 25269 Technical specifications: - Saw blade speed, frequency-controlled for ultra-fine cutting - Saw blade diameter: 200 mm - Automatic work cycle - Pressure stop with SICO counter for setting glass contact pressure – simulation - Pneumatic connection: 6 bar Bdsdpew R S Nwofx Afxec - Drive: 400 V / 0.8 kW - Required space: approx. W 400 x H 1200 x D 700 mm - Weight: approx. 80 kg - Machine stand

Condition: refurbished (used), Year of construction: 2007, functionality: fully functional, Semi-automatic circular saw for aluminium and non-ferrous metals with PD200-E-7 length measuring system Completely overhauled and fully functional Features: - Large cutting range with saw blade Ø 700 mm - Maximum profile width up to 530 mm, profile height up to 270 mm - Saw blade feed hydro-pneumatically adjustable from the outside - Radial feed movement from bottom to top - Saw motor drive power 7.5 kW - Infinitely variable blade speed adjustment - Metered spray unit - 2 vertical and horizontal clamping devices, each with pressure reduction - Infinitely adjustable feed rate of the saw unit - Manually operated safety guard Technical data: - Drive: 7.5 kW - Speed: 1300 - 2000 rpm - Cutting speed: 48 - 73 m/sec Bdodex Eb Anspfx Afxsc - Air pressure: 6 - 8 bar - Working height: 970 mm - Weight: 1250 kg - Dimensions: H 1900 x W 1400 x D 1700 mm - Height with guard open: 2450 mm PD200-E-7 length measuring system - Usable as a stop as well as a pusher - Measuring length: 6 m - Positioning control for automatic positioning - Easy-to-read LED display for target length, actual length, and quantity - Positioning accuracy 0.1 mm/m - Piece counter for number of completed pieces / cuts

Condition: excellent (used), Year of construction: 2007, Complete saw line consisting of loading unit, fully automatic circular saw, and unloading unit. Bdedpfxjxvbvvs Afxec Suitable for a wide range of applications, especially in the photovoltaic and automotive industries. Loading Unit: - Horizontal loading magazine model HLM - 4-strand timing belt conveyor - 6 compartments, each 285mm wide, for profile feeding - Maximum material height according to the saw cutting area; round material up to max. diameter 130mm - 3 sliding strips between timing belts as additional support - Profile length min. 2,700mm, max. 6,500mm Saw: - Fully automatic circular saw Pressta-Eisele model PROFILMA 510 E-SA - Saw blade diameter max. 500mm - Continuously variable speed adjustment - Hydro-pneumatic saw blade feed, infinitely adjustable, from rear to front - Siemens S7-300 control system with touchscreen - Reversing device with five-fold stroke up to max. 5,000mm - Electric material feed 3 – 1,000mm (single stroke) - Cutting gap extension on both sides - Pneumatic unloading slide - Scrap flap after saw for offcuts / remains - Cut length depending on profile, from 8mm - Menzel minimum quantity lubrication system - Clamping pressure regulation - Two extraction nozzles for chip extraction Unloading: - Table size 1,500mm x 2,500mm - Pneumatic cross pusher

Condition: new, For processing all common aluminium window profile systems such as Schüco, Hueck, Heroal, Reynolds, etc. Universally applicable thanks to double adjustable punching tools. Suitable for corner brackets with groove dimensions from 25 to 60 mm and profile chamber offset from 0 to 40 mm. Continuously height-adjustable feelers, punch blades and stop inserts. Feelers and punching units are equipped with scales. Retractable stop for easy insertion of profiles, self-adjusting when advancing against the profile. Hydraulic stop locking. Pneumatic pressing operation via a lever system ensures a synchronous punching process. Bdedpfxohmfyho Afxoc 2 pneumatic hold-down cylinders for clamping the profiles. 2 eccentric discs for positioning the frames. 2 swiveling profile support arms. Operation via 2 foot valves. Includes standard tooling.

Condition: excellent (used), Year of construction: 1992, functionality: fully functional, overall weight: 380 kg, Dimensions (W x H x D): 950 x 800 x 1150 mm Bdodpfx Ajyl R T Dsfxsc Weight: 350 kg Operating principle: hydropneumatic Operating pressure: pneumatic, 6 to 8 bar Air consumption: 10 liters per stroke Pressing force: 35 kN at 7 bar Air connection: R 1/4" Punching stroke: 20 mm Return stroke: 100 mm Max. punching height: 120 mm Max. profile height: 120 mm

Condition: excellent (used), Year of construction: 1994, functionality: fully functional, Type: AKF 250 Motor: 400V 2.2kW Speed: 2800 rpm Cutter diameter: 250 mm Cutter arbor diameter: 40 mm Milling width: 300 mm Milling depth: 85 mm Bdodpfx Aoygdf Aofxjc Profile height: 160 mm Weight: approx. 150 kg Dimensions (W x H x D): 950 x 1450 x 930 mm

Condition: as good as new (ex-display), Year of construction: 2018, saw blade diameter: 550,500 mm, Machine in perfect technical condition. Practically very little used. For processing aluminum and PVC profiles. Mitres possible in 3 levels and can be used as a splitting saw, manual adjustment of the horizontal saw blade by a maximum of 20 mm in front of the vertical saw blade. Notch options: rectangular, one-sided diagonal, two-sided diagonal, three-sided diagonal. Processing of profiles up to 300, width up to 90 °, bevels up to 30 °. Notch depth horizontally up to 185 mm, vertically up to 210 mm at an angle of 90 °. Notch width at 90 °: 300 mm, profile height 280 mm Manual adjustment of the notch and height, positioning using mechanical digital displays. Vertical saw blade rotation range 30° – 90° – 30°, (front/middle/back) manual, positioning via digital display. Vertical saw blade rotation range 30° – 90° – 30°, manual, positioning via digital display. Bjdpfxjvtarno Afxedc The material stop (table top) can be manually rotated left and right within the range of 30° - 90° - 30°, positioning via measuring scale. The material depth stop can be manually adjusted via the sliding carriage and manual clamp, positioning via digital display.

Condition: excellent (used), Year of construction: 2001, functionality: fully functional, machine/vehicle number: 1015, profiles with dimensions (HxB) up to 100x195mm, 80x200 mm automatic work cycle driven by a 3 kW/400 V, 2850 rpm motor cutting disc d=450x3.8x40mm, z=110 horizontal and vertical material clamping on the feed side dosing spray system horizontal material clamping in the feeder moving both clamping jaws when retracting (prevents scratching of the profile) Bdjdpfx Afswgmv Soxoc infinitely adjustable hydropneumatic cutting disc feed cutting disc exiting from the rear length of cut sections adjustable in the range of 0-300mm (with reversing device 0-600 mm) setting the cutting length by a handwheel with a mechanical counter maximum width of the cut profile 200 mm cutting range (height x width) 100x195mm, 80x200mm automatic shutdown when material runs out possibility of connecting a dust extractor