Used Bench Boring Machine / Horizontal Boring Machine for sale (67,674)

Condition: used, Year of construction: 1987, grinding length:520 mm grinding width:160 mm workpiece height:300 mm magnetic clamping plate, electical:BxT=520X160 mm Bsdpfscxxy Usx Aqgjwr wheel diameter:230 mm Year:1987 weight of the machine ca.:1,5 t dimensions of the machine ca.:LxBxH 1,5x1,8x1,6 m

Condition: ready for operation (used), Year of construction: 2012, machine/vehicle number: 18966, functionality: fully functional, No minimum price – guaranteed sale to the highest bidder! TECHNICAL DETAILS Working area, X-axis: 3,309 mm Working area, Y-axis: 1,703 mm Working area, Z-axis: 120 mm Table length: 3,100 mm Table width: 1,500 mm Bwsdpfx Aszdy S Seqgjr Number of milling spindles: 1 Number of controlled axes: 3 Tool clamping system: HSK-F63 Tool changer positions: 12 MACHINE DETAILS System/Software: BiesseWorks Capacity: 360 m³/h Connection diameter: 70 mm Vacuum: 300 bar Main motor power: 11 kW Power consumption: 24 A Power: 14.2 kW Dimensions & Weight Dimensions (L x W x H): 4,500 x 2,350 x 2,000 mm Empty weight: 1,530 kg Transport packages: 2 Vacuum pump Busch MM 1322 A VM8 Year of manufacture: 2012 Main motor power: 6 kW EQUIPMENT CE marking CE certificate Documentation (Electrical diagrams, parts list, technical data, user manual (NL, paper form)) Safety fence, safety light curtain Milling table: Flat table Material clamping system: Pneumatic

Condition: ready for operation (used), Year of construction: 2006, machine/vehicle number: AA1/015406, functionality: fully functional, operating hours: 14,808 h, working width: 1,300 mm, spindle speed (max.): 24,000 rpm, working height: 200 mm, working length: 3,110 mm, No minimum price – guaranteed sale to the highest bidder! The machine is still in operation and can be inspected while powered on. TECHNICAL DETAILS Working area X-axis: 3,110 mm Working area Y-axis: 1,300 mm Working area Z-axis: 200 mm Maximum travel X-axis: 3,500 mm Maximum travel Y-axis: 1,815 mm Maximum travel Z-axis: 440 mm Table length: 3,050 mm Table width: 13 mm Number of milling spindles: 1 Bedpfx Aqozdy E Sogowr Spindle speed: 600 - 24,000 rpm Number of controlled axes: 5 Horizontal drilling spindles: 6 Vertical drilling spindles: 12 Tool changer positions: 16 MACHINE DETAILS Main motor power: 11 kW Main motor power of the vacuum pump: 5.5 kW Capacity of the vacuum pump: 250 m³/h Dimensions & Weight Dimensions (L x W x H): 9,000 x 2,450 x 2,850 mm Installed dimensions (L x W x H): 4,600 x 6,500 x 3,400 mm Shipping dimensions: 9,000 x 2,450 x 2,850 mm Empty weight: 4,000 kg Shipping packages: 1 unit Operating hours: 14,808 h EQUIPMENT Milling table: Beam table Tool clamping system: HSK-F63 Material clamping system: Pneumatic Drilling tool Saw unit System/Software: Xilog plus Safety feature: Safety mat Vacuum pump: Becker CNC options: Chip conveyor, Hand control CNC documentation: User key/licenses

Condition: excellent (used), Year of construction: 2011, functionality: fully functional, We offer you: Bsdpfezl D N Rjx Aqgowr Manufacturer: GGF / MAG Type: SPECHT 500 DUO Year of manufacture: 2011 Control system: Siemens 840D sl Technical data: Travel ranges: x-axis: 750 mm y-axis: 650 mm z-axis: 560 mm Main spindle: Spindle speed: max. 16,000 rpm Drive power: 40 / 26 kW Table dimensions: Working diameter: max. 1,100 mm Workpiece/fixture width: max. 1,520 mm Load capacity: max. 2 x 365 kg Tool changer: Tool holder: HSK-A63 Feed rates: Axis speed: max. 60 m/min A total of 16 identical machines are available. In addition, there is a 3-axis machine with HSK-A100, suitable for extremely long tools. Accessories, tools and clamping devices shown in the images are only included in the scope of delivery if this is stated in the additional information. Subject to change and errors in the technical data and specifications, as well as prior sale!

Condition: used, Year of construction: 1992, grinding length 0800 mm grinding width 500 mm workpiece height 400 mm table-size 800 x 400 mm table speeds 1 - 25 m/min Bjdpowgnz Aofx Aqgswr cross feed autom. 0 - 60 mm/Hub grinding wheel size 400 x 100 x 127 mm grinding spindle speed 1400/2800 U/min total power requirement 10 kW voltage 380 V weight of the machine ca. 6 t Machine has cooling arrangement, auto. vert. feed, dressing arrangement and wheel flanges. Control doesn't work continuesly !!

Condition: ready for operation (used), Year of construction: 1991, functionality: limited functionality, travel distance X-axis: 5,020 mm, travel distance Y-axis: 1,000 mm, travel distance Z-axis: 2,000 mm, spindle diameter: 100 mm, controller model: Heidenhain 415 B, TECHNICAL DETAILS Spindle diameter: 100 mm Bwjdpfx Ajzlryqeqgsr Travel in X-axis: 5,020 mm Travel in Y-axis: 1,000 mm Travel in Z-axis: 2,000 mm Tool holder: SK 50 MACHINE DETAILS Control system: Heidenhain 415 B Rotary table dimensions: 2,500 x 2,000 mm EQUIPMENT Indexable milling head 2.5 60-position tool changer Rotary table manufacturer: Scharmann Note: The rotary function of the rotary table is defective. The machine is sold without pallet changers.

Condition: like new (used), Year of construction: 2001, Retrofitted: 2026 Numerical control: HEIDENHAIN TNC-426 Technical features Dimensions Table dimensions: 6000 x 1000 mmNumber of T slots: 7T slots dimensions: 22 mm Traverses of axis Longitudinal traverse X: 5300 mmVertical traverse Y: 1050 mmTransversal traverse Z: 1500 mmVertical capacity (VC): 80 - 1130 Milling head Head type: Fixed frontalTool clamping system: HydraulicTaper nose: ISO 50 (DIN 69871)   /   Pull stud: DIN 69872-BSpeed range: 60 - 3000 rpmSpindle power: 22/30 kW Feedrates Feedrate: 5000 mm/minRapid feedrate (X,Y,Z): 10000 mm/min Weight and dimensions Maximum weight on table: UndeterminedMachine weight approximate: 43000 kgMachine dimensions approximate: 11560 x 6150 x 3538 mm Accessories Guarding: 2 front sliding doorsAutomatic tool changer: ATC40Chip conveyor: 2 longitudinals hinge typeElectronic handwheel: HR-410Coolant: External Sale conditions Warranty: 6 months mechanical partsPrice and sale conditions: On request View all technical features Bsdpfx Aeugbrqsqgewr

Condition: new, Year of construction: 2022, New machine Year of manufacture: 2022 DESCRIPTION 21 drilling spindles with quick-change system; five quick-change chucks included in delivery Heavy-duty steel worktable; five quick-change chucks included in delivery Patented system for fast and easy adjustment of drilling depth via spiral disc Pneumatic drill head swiveling, allowing drilling in any position between 0° and 90° Fold-down cast iron side stops with round bar guide Side stops easily adjustable and lockable to millimeter scale using magnifier Height adjustment of drill head via counter Two positionable pneumatic clamping cylinders With a spindle center distance of 640 mm, it is possible to process two workpieces of 316 mm width each SCOPE OF DELIVERY Two pneumatic pressure cylinders Five quick-change chucks Two stop rails, each 1.5 m long Four fold-down stops for the stop rails One setting gauge for fine adjustment of the fold-down stops on the stop rails TECHNICAL DATA Dimensions and Weights Worktable length 885 mm Worktable width 332 mm Product length approx. 1015 mm Product width/depth approx. 990 mm Product height approx. 1270 mm Net weight approx. 260 kg Electrical Data Rated input power 1.5 kW Delivered power 1.1 kW Motor duty cycle S3 Connection voltage 400 V Mains frequency 50 Hz Noise Emission Sound pressure level 78.3 dB(A) Pneumatic Connection Bedpfjw I Uqljx Aqgowr Working pressure 6 – 8 bar Spindle Maximum drilling width 640 mm Maximum drilling depth at 90°: 65 mm Number of spindles: 21 Spindle distance 32 mm Center distance first to last spindle: 640 mm Spindle spacing sufficient for two workpieces of 316 mm each Spindle speed: 2800 rpm Drill head swivel range: 0 – 90° Maximum workpiece height: 130 mm Extraction Extraction nozzle diameter: 80 mm Including optional accessories: 2 pcs. Additional pneumatic pressure cylinders for MDB 21/23/29 PRO 17 pcs. Quick-change chucks for MDB 21/23/29 PRO 1 pc. Setting gauge for rear fence distance for MDB 21/23/29 PRO 1 pc. Reference pin for line drilling for MDB 21/23/29 PRO Location: Solingen Availability: Immediately

Condition: ready for operation (used), Year of construction: 2015, functionality: fully functional, machine/vehicle number: 308, table width: 850 mm, table length: 1,250 mm, stroke length: 200 mm, pressing force: 42 t, empty load weight: 1,000 kg, TECHNICAL DETAILS Bending capacity: 42 tons Max. bending stroke: 200 mm Table length: 1,250 mm Table width: 850 mm Stroke length: 300 mm Stroke width: 200 mm MACHINE DETAILS Motor power: 4.0 kW Dimensions & Weight Dimensions (L x W x H): 1,500 x 2,500 x 1,800 mm Shipping weight: 1,000 kg Shipping packages: 2 pieces EQUIPMENT Bwsdpfezdfb Tex Aqgor Documentation CE marking

Condition: excellent (used), Year of construction: 1988, Scheer dowel drilling machine DB 12 used 3 spindles 32 mm drilling center distance Bwsdpfxjy Ahuhe Aqgjr Motor 1.1 kW Max. drilling depth 70 mm Location: ex stock 54634 Bitburg - immediately available -

Year of construction: 2024, condition: as good as new (ex-display), Stierli bending machine 120HE Horizontal bending machine, with bending force of 12 tons tool height 130 mm stroke 0-170 mm bending capacity for flat steel 130x12 mm Bjdjid Izgopfx Aqgswr pipe bending for steel pipes up to 1 1/2" capable of performing minor straightening operations demonstration machine, year of manufacture 2024

Condition: good (used), Year of construction: 1997, functionality: fully functional, For focaccia, rolls, baguettes, and cake bases. Top and bottom belts are new; the knife has been newly sharpened by Krumbein themselves. Belt width: 40 cm. Machine length: 80 cm. Minimum cutting height: 5-7 millimeters. Speed adjustable. Pick-up only. Bsdpfx Aqozcf A Iegewr

Year of construction: 2024, condition: as good as new (ex-display), Stierli bending machine 420HE Horizontal bending machine, with bending force of 42 tons tool height of 200 mm stroke of 0-310 mm, stepless bending capacity of 200x24 mm St40 Bwsdpfsid Izkox Aqgjr straightening capacity for HEB180 Bending and straightening program via selector switch Exhibition machine, year of manufacture 2024, incl. hand-held control and foot pedal Wear-resistant machine table Machine in new condition

Condition: good (used), Year of construction: 2017, Horizontal machining center Machine type: DMG MORI NHX 5000 Control: M730UM mit Celos Year: 2017 SPECIFICATIONS Travel Bwodpfx Aezinbxoqgor X-Axis: 730 mm Y-Axis: 730 mm Z-Axis: 880 mm Rapid motion: (X/Y/Z): 60 m/min. Feed: (X/Y/Z): 60 m/min. Spindle speeds: 15.000 rpm Spindle motor: 37 kW Torque: 250 Nm Toolchanger Tool: HSK 63 Tool capacity: 60 Work piece diameter: 70 / 140 mm Tool lenght: 550 mm Tool weight: 12 kg Palett system Amount of paletts: 2 Palett size: 500 x 500 mm B-Axes: 0,001° Max. Table Load: 500 kg Equipment Chip conveyor Filtration system: Knoll KF 110/700 Internal cooling: 70 bar

Year of construction: 1985, condition: used, spindle diameter 110 mm x-travel 900 mm y-travel 600 mm z-axis 200 mm table length 1020 mm table width 860 mm taper MK 40 Table size, approx. 1,020 x 860 mm Max. weight of workpiece 800 kg Table travel, longitudinal, max. (X) 900 mm Boring head travel, cross, max. (Y) 600 mm Boring spindle stroke (Z) 200 mm Vertical travel of cross beam (W) 635 mm Vertical distance between table and boring spindle 15 - 850 mm Distance between columns 950 mm Spindle Ø 110 mm Spindle taper internal/external ISO 40 18 spindle speeds 10 - 2,500 rpm Milling feeds of table, infinitely variable 1 - 6,000 mm/min 4 milling feeds of boring head 30 - 180 mm/min 6 boring feeds 0.01 - 0.39 rpm Accuracy of all 3 axes when the machine was new 0.003 mm Quick feeds for table, boring head slide, and boring spindle, max. 6,000 mm/min Spindle drive 6.2 kW Weight, approx. 9,000 kg Total electrical load 15 kW - 380 V - 50 Hz Accessories / Special Features - BOSCH CNC Control, Model MICRO 8, in 3 axes, with monitor. Program input is either manual or via cassette, or via interface entry. Bwsdpfot Hwyxox Aqgsr - Digital display for Z Axis. - Separate switch cabinet. - Various tools. - Oil cooler for spindle lubrication.

Condition: excellent (used), Year of construction: 1978, grinding length 500 mm grinding width 200 mm Bjdpfx Aezbczreqgjwr

Condition: used, Year of construction: 1999, x-travel 800 mm y-travel 630 mm z-travel 560 mm total power requirement 60 kW weight of the machine ca. 12.5 t dimensions of the machine ca. m H E L L E R (Germany) 5 Axis - CNC Controlled Horizontal Machining Centre Model FST- MC 160 / 800 / E Year 1998 Only approx. 500 hours in operation _____ Working range: Longitudinal stroke X axis 800 mm Vertical stroke Y axis 630 mm Cross stroke Z axis 560 mm NC rotary table Tilting A axis 180 ° Turning B axis 360 ° Size of pallet, approx. 250 x 620 mm Tool holder HSK 63A Spindle speeds, infinitely variable 63 - 20,000 rpm Feeds / quick feeds XYZ 1 - 70,000 mm/min Spindle drive 24 kW Total electrical load, approx. 60 kW - 400 V - 50 Hz Weight, approx. 12,500 kg Accessories / Special Features * 5-Axis SIEMENS CNC Path Control, Model SINUMERIC 840 D, allows working operation on 5 sides. * Workpiece handling system: Workpiece is mounted on a pallet outside the machine and is transported via a conveyor into a lifting/turning device, which brings the workpiece onto the table, where it is automatically clamped and machined. * 40-position tool magazine with tool replacement door, and laser-operated tool breakage control. * Internal high pressure coolant supply, 50 bar. * Coolant preparation unit with filter and temperature control. Bwedst Hwrhjpfx Aqger * Oil mist exhaust. * Separate cooling aggregate for motor spindle and switch cabinet. * CO² fire extinguisher. * Chip conveyor. * Complete covers for the working area. Machine comes from the design department of an car manufacturer and was only used for trials. The new price in 1998 was approx. 1.3 million DM (EUR 650,000.00). The machine is very suitable for medium-sized production series. Ideal for aluminium.

Condition: used, Year of construction: 1965, x-travel 1000 mm Bwedpfjwqrw Nox Aqgjr y-travel 600 mm total power requirement 2,5 kW

Condition: used, Year of construction: 2000, grinding length 1600 mm grinding width 600 mm Bwodpfxjt Hxcbs Aqgsr workpiece height 500 mm total power requirement 50 kW

Condition: used, Year of construction: 1965, core drilling diameter max. 50 mm bore depth 2000 mm swing diameter mm drilling capacity diameter max. 110 mm total power requirement 30 kW weight of the machine ca. 10 t Drilling Ø, approx. 2 - 50 mm Boring Ø, approx. 100 mm Drilling depth, max. (see stroke / mounting length) 1,600 - 2,000 mm Stroke of drilling slide, approx. 4,000 mm Distance between the two spindle heads 5,000 mm Height of centres above guideways 350 / 450 mm Drilling feed of drilling slide, infinitely variable 20 - 200 mm/min Quick feed of drilling slide 2,500 mm/min Spindle speeds via belt disks 260 - 650 / 650 - 1,625 rpm Workspindle drive 24 kW Drive of coolant pumps 1 x 7.5/15 kW and 1 x 15/28 kW Total electrical load, approx. 60 kW - 380 V - 50 Hz Total length of machine / guideways 7,500 / 5,000 mm Weight, approx. 10,000 kg Accessories / Special Features * Machine consists of the following elements: Main spindle on the left-hand side, followed by the coolant oil supply device. Table group, driven by ball screw spindle. Coolant oil supply device with elevated height of centres. At the end is a headstock, Type B 16, with drive motor approx. 7.5 kW, n = 900/2400 and 2400/6000. Large coolant device with filter unit. Large selection of accessories and drilling tools with Ø up to 100 mm. * Machine is suitable for working with a rotating workpiece together with a fixed drilling tool (ELB and BTA Process), as well as for a fixed workpiece and a rotating drilling tool. It can work with internal oil feed (Elb) or with external oil feed (BTA). * Complete oil coolant unit with tank and filter and two SIG high pressure pumps. Number of litres can be set: 17 / 40 / 120 or 220 / 500 litres per minute. Capacity approx. 2,500 l. * Feed of main slide is via ball screw spindle and infinitely variable DC motor. Mounted on the main slide is at present a table, approx. 800 x 800 mm, cross-adjustable approx. 500 mm, and suitable for holding cubic and cylindrical workpieces. Electric control via cam rail, approx. 2,500 mm long. End switch for quick feed, feed and return. * 2 closed 3-point steady rests. * FORKHARDT 3-Jaw Chuck, manually operated, Ø approx. 315 mm. * Modernized control panel with speed display, feed setting and display, display for kW, switch for feed, quick feed, right/left, etc. * 2 separate switch cabinets, separate coolant oil display device, bushes, reducers, clamping helps and lots of other accessories. Bwedpfx Aqet Hwucogor This is a very valuable machine because of all the accessories!

Condition: used, Year of construction: 1985, core drilling diameter max. 18 mm Bwodpfjt Hwvasx Aqgjr bore depth 320 mm swing diameter mm total power requirement 33 kW weight of the machine ca. 6 t dimensions of the machine ca. m

Condition: used, Year of construction: 1984, cycle time 0 sec total power requirement 2,5 kW weight of the machine ca. 1 t dimensions of the machine ca. m Bsdpfet Hwvgjx Aqgowr P O S A L U X (Switzerland) Horizontal 3-Spindle Fine Boring Machines Model MICROFOR PNC 3 Year 1984 Serial Nos. 6.8230/9 Boring Æ 0.15 - 2 mm Spindle stroke 0 - 18 mm Working stroke, max. 0 - 12 mm Quick feed 60 mm/sec Boring feed 0 - 5 mm/sec Spindle speeds 3,500 - 11,500 rpm Distance between spindles, vertical, approx. 80 mm Table speeds (for deburring) approx. 100 rpm Table Æ, approx. 100 mm Table bore, approx. 70 mm Table slide swivelling device, approx. 60 °/sec Swivelling range 0 - 100 ° Total drive, approx. 2.5 kW Weight 1,000 kg Accessories / Special Features Serial No. 6.8230/9 Machine is equipped with a modern POSALUX SELECTRON Control with keyboard and LED for direct programming on the machine (in principle the same as with a punchboard control). With setting microscope and machine lamp.

Condition: used, Year of construction: 1996, core drilling diameter max. 25 mm bore depth 1000 mm swing diameter mm total power requirement 25 kW weight of the machine ca. 12,5 t dimensions of the machine ca. m T B T (Germany) CNC-Controlled Horizontal Deep Hole Drilling " Centre " Model BWP 250 Year 1996, but reconditioned mechanically and electrically in 2006 _____ Working range: X Axis, machine column cross 2,000 mm Z Axis, drilling slide horizontal 1,200 mm Drilling depth 1.000 mm Y Axis, drilling slide vertical 1,100 mm Table clamping area 1,200 x 2,000 mm Drilling capacity in solid material, approx. 4 - 25 mm Tool holder taper HSK 50 Spindle speeds 1.260 - 15,000 rpm Feed rates / quickfeed, XYZ, infinitely variable 100 - 10,000/15.000 mm/min. Bedpjt Hw Ayjfx Aqgjwr Force rate of feed motors 27 Nm / 1.000 daN Spindle drive steplessly adjustable 7 kW Total electrical load, approx. 30 kW - 400 V - 50 Hz Weight, approx. 10,000 kg Accessories / Special Features: " Ideal machine for the complete processing of large workpieces like tool a. dies (cooling holes) mould- and dieplates, hydraulicparts etc. by means of deep hole drilling up to 25 x 1.000 mm, face milling up to Ø 60 mm, spiral twist drilling, counterboring and threading up to M 24 x 3 mm. " SIEMENS Continuous Path Control in 4 axes Model 840 D, with process monitoring for coolant pressure, operation data control function, toollife, feed force,Error diagnostics and easy dialogueprogramming directly on the panel, etc. " High Frequency Spindle Make GAMFIOR with stepless speeds " Hydraulically movable drill bush carrier, swivels 90° for holding gun drills (ELB) or picking up regular tools from the tool changer like twist drills, milling tools, taps, etc. " With automatic tool changer made by MIKSCH, Model CTM 40, using a 12-position tool changer, which is mounted on the r.h.side of machine housing, in fixed position, only moving forward and backward for tool changing operation. " Built-on indexing table as B-Axis made by FIBRO Model RTN 400 = 420 x 420 mm, " Extra Rotary Table made by FIBRO with Ø 1.000mm, for indexing 3-144 positions " Built-in coolant device with chip conveyor and various filters. " 2 steady rests. " Completely covered working area with access at the front and at the side. Condition : Very good condition. This is a rare and valuable machine. Under Power Delivery : immediately ex our Stock Payment : Net, after conclusion of contract.

Condition: used, Year of construction: 1978, spindle diameter 105 mm x-travel 1250 mm y-travel 1000 mm z-travel 600 mm Bwjdpet Hwtxsfx Aqgsr table length 1100 mm table width 900 mm tool adaptor 50 ISO / MK total power requirement kW weight of the machine ca. t CNC Table Borer, Reconditioned 2002, BOSCH CC 300

Condition: used, Year of construction: 1985, max. wheel diameter 80 mm gear width 150 mm max. module 2,5 min. module total power requirement 10 kW weight of the machine ca. 2400 kg M I K R O N (Switzerland) Fully Automatic Gear Hobber for Worm Gears Model A 33 / 1 Year 1985 Ser.-No. 14.06/14.07/14.15 _____ max. gear- without feed magazine approx. 80 mm max. gear- with feed magazine approx. 50 mm Module max. 2, / 2,5 Bwedst Hw D Rspfx Aqgjr Axial milling length approx. 150 mm max. workpiece-mounting length approx. 200 mm Milling slide can be swivelled up to 90 degrees Milling cutter - 24 - 50/63 mm Max. radial distance of milling slide 0-14/18 mm Milling cutter adjustment max. 25 mm Milling cutter speed 212 - 2.000 rpm Axial feed range infinitely adjustable 0,05 - 4,0 mm/workpiece rotation radial infinitely adjustable 0,2 - 200 mm/min. Milling spindle drive 3 kW Total electrical load approx. 10 kW - 50 Hz - 380 Volt Weight approx. 2.400 kg Accessories/Special Features: " Fully automatic operation cycle and minimum idle times due to programmable SIEMENS Program Controls S 5 for all machining steps i.e. rapid gear, feed, milling cutter on/off for the loading device, tailstock, possibly shifting, etc. with unit counter, program numbering including 30 different numeric error displays Pneumatic workpiece-loading and unloading facility parallel to work piece axis upright for rod workpieces approx. 140 mm long x 8 mm , including pneumatic double gripper for loading and unloading of work pieces. Raw parts are inserted into change cassettes externally and then placed into the loading device. The double gripper places the parts between workpiece spindle and tailstock, the tailstock spindle sleeve pushes the parts in the main spindle collet and clamps them simultaneously. The finished parts are ejected from the main spindle, then placed back again into the finished parts cassette by the gripper. The whole process is electrically monitored and checked. The complete loading facility is encased by plexiglass. " Hydraulic work piece clamping device including collets and hydraulic ejector " separate cooling system with magnetic separator * separate hydraulic system * various change gears This machine is set up for worm gears/armature shafts that can be used for adjustable car seats, window lifters, etc.