Used Mig Welder for sale (658)

Condition: new, Year of construction: 2026, functionality: fully functional, type of input current: three-phase, input voltage: 400 V, ground cable length: 4,000 mm, type of cooling: water, hose package length: 10,000 mm, welding current at 60% duty cycle: 320 A, protection type (IP code): IP23, welding current (min.): 5 A, welding current (max.): 320 A, The uncomprimising entry into the professional world of pulse welding – for an unbeatable price Continuously variable welding inverter for MIG/MAG pusle arc welding Robust 4-roll wire feeder (encoder regulated) Customizable LCD Panel Higher Power with an upper limit of wire feeding speed from 18 to 22m/min Artificial Intelligence (AI) controlled smart pulse process Steel + Stainless Steel Pulse (Aluminium package can be bought afterwards) 380/400 Volt 30-320 AMP 60% 320 AMP Duty-Cycle (P323E) Including: OTC ARXIS P323E Water-cool unit Trolley PRO5000 4 Meter Welding Torch Earth cble 70mm² 5 Meter 10 Meter Interconnection hose 2 Years Warranty Visits by appointment only. Test welding is possible. A video of the machine in welding condition is possible. We also deliver to countries like Spain, Germany, Austria, Lithuania, Greece and all other countries inside and outside Europe with Euro pallets per freight. All our machines have been serviced and are 100% ready to use unless otherwise indicated. The pictures above show the real machine. Dsdpfx Akezqz A Sorsck We can also offer you other types of machines such as: Used, New, Mig, Mag, Co2, Tig, Pulse, AC/DC, Plasma, Water-cooled, Electrode, Brands we offer: OTC, Migatronic, Lincoln, Miller, Fronius, Kemppi, Parweld, Tico, Lorch, Rehm, Selco, Carl Cloos, Cebora, Esab, Saf, EWM, Ess, Kemper. You always do business with Cjays Lastechniek itself and never with third parties.

Condition: refurbished (used), functionality: fully functional, type of input current: three-phase, input voltage: 380 V, ground cable length: 4,000 mm, type of cooling: water, hose package length: 4,000 mm, welding current (min.): 25 A, welding current (max.): 450 A, Second-hand Röwac PU450 Double Pulse MIG Refurbished, tested, serviced and ready for immediate use 3 Months Warranty Specifications: 25-450 AMP 400 Volt Pulse / Double Pulse Synergic Water-cooled 2/4 Step 4 Roller drive Gas pre flow / Gas post flow Start current / End current Fixed programs / Program memory Elektrode option Including: 4 Meter Welding torch, earth cable with clamp, and gas cable. Visits by appointment only. Test welding is possible. A video of the machine in welding condition is possible. We also deliver to countries like Spain, Germany, Austria, Lithuania, Greece and all other countries inside and outside Europe with Euro pallets per freight. All our machines have been serviced and are 100% ready to use unless otherwise indicated. The pictures above show the real machine. We can also offer you other types of machines such as: Used, New, Mig, Mag, Co2, Tig, Pulse, AC/DC, Plasma, Water-cooled, Electrode, Brands we offer: OTC, Migatronic, Lincoln, Miller, Fronius, Kemppi, Parweld, Tico, Lorch, Rehm, Selco, Carl Cloos, Cebora, Esab, Saf, EWM, Ess, Kemper. Dodpfxezp D Afs Akrjck You always do business with Cjays Lastechniek itself and never with third parties.

Condition: new, Year of construction: 2026, functionality: fully functional, type of input current: three-phase, input voltage: 380 V, ground cable length: 4,000 mm, warranty duration: 24 months, type of cooling: water, welding current (min.): 30 A, welding current (max.): 400 A, OTC DAIHEN CPTX-i 400 2W Built for professionals. Ready for years of production. Looking for a reliable industrial MIG/MAG welding machine that performs day after day? The OTC DAIHEN CPTX-i 400 2W is designed for companies that value reliability, welding quality and low operating costs. Fully inspected, tested and ready for immediate use. ✔ Industrial 400 Amp inverter ✔ Exceptional arc stability ✔ Built for intensive daily use ✔ Reliable Japanese technology ✔ 3 months warranty Included: Dcodpfx Akeznt Risrok • OTC wire feeder • Interconnecting cable • Ground cable • Welding torch (if included) 🌍 Worldwide shipping available. 📩 Contact us for more information, photos or a demonstration. Specifications 400 Amp 400 Volt Water-cooled MIG/MAG Synergic 2/4 Step Industrial inverter 4-roll wire feed 24 Months Warranty Visits by appointment only. Test welding is possible. A video of the machine in welding condition is possible. We also deliver to countries like Spain, Germany, Austria, Lithuania, Greece and all other countries inside and outside Europe with Euro pallets per freight. All our machines have been serviced and are 100% ready to use unless otherwise indicated. The pictures above show the real machine. We can also offer you other types of machines such as: Used, New, Mig, Mag, Co2, Tig, Pulse, AC/DC, Plasma, Water-cooled, Electrode, Brands we offer: OTC, Migatronic, Lincoln, Miller, Fronius, Kemppi, Parweld, Tico, Lorch, Rehm, Selco, Carl Cloos, Cebora, Esab, Saf, EWM, Ess, Kemper. You always do business with Cjays Lastechniek itself and never with third parties.

Condition: reconditioned (used), Year of construction: 2013, functionality: fully functional, machine/vehicle number: MD060381G, type of input current: three-phase, input voltage: 380 V, ground cable length: 4,000 mm, warranty duration: 3 months, type of cooling: water, hose package length: 4,000 mm, welding current at 60% duty cycle: 500 A, welding current at 100% duty cycle: 400 A, welding current (min.): 15 A, welding current (max.): 565 A, Equipment: type plate available, For sale: Miller PipeWorx 400 565 AMP (60% 500A, 100% 400A) 380 Volt Dedpfxozhvuke Akrsck 2013 Water-cooled Pulse RMD Programma memory Elektrode option Steel + Stainless Steel weldable Refurbished, tested, and serviced. Test welding possible Including 1,0-1,2mm feed rolls, 2x PRO5000 MIG welding torches, earth work lead with clamp, gas cable, transport cart, and 3 months warranty. Test welding is possible. A video of the machine in welding condition is possible. We also deliver to countries like Spain, Germany, Austria, Lithuania, Greece and all other countries inside and outside Europe with Euro pallets per freight. All our machines have been serviced and are 100% ready to use unless otherwise indicated. The pictures above show the real machine. We can also offer you other types of machines such as: Used, New, Mig, Mag, Co2, Tig, Pulse, AC/DC, Plasma, Water-cooled, Electrode, Brands we offer: OTC, Migatronic, Lincoln, Miller, Fronius, Kemppi, Parweld, Tico, Lorch, Rehm, Selco, Carl Cloos, Cebora, Esab, Saf, EWM, Ess, Kemper. You always do business with Cjays Lastechniek itself and never with third parties.

Condition: refurbished (used), functionality: fully functional, input voltage: 400 V, ground cable length: 3,000 mm, warranty duration: 3 months, type of cooling: water, hose package length: 1,000 mm, welding current (min.): 60 A, welding current (max.): 450 A, Equipment: type plate available, Carl Cloos GLC 451 C - Water-cooled Mig Mag Step-controlled Specifications: 60-450 AMP Dcodpfoy Rqt Aex Akrjk 380 Volt Water-cooled 30 steps adjustable 2/4 stroke 4 roller driven Adjustable burnback time Includes: Mig welding torch, earth cable with clamp, gas hose, and 10 metre intermediate package. Visits by appointment only. Test welding is possible. A video of the machine in welding condition is possible. We also deliver to countries like Spain, Germany, Austria, Lithuania, Greece and all other countries inside and outside Europe with Euro pallets per freight. All our machines have been serviced and are 100% ready to use unless otherwise indicated. The pictures above show the real machine. We can also offer you other types of machines such as: Used, New, Mig, Mag, Co2, Tig, Pulse, AC/DC, Plasma, Water-cooled, Electrode, Brands we offer: OTC, Migatronic, Lincoln, Miller, Fronius, Kemppi, Parweld, Tico, Lorch, Rehm, Selco, Carl Cloos, Cebora, Esab, Saf, EWM, Ess, Kemper. You always do business with Cjays Lastechniek itself and never with third parties.

Condition: good (used), 1 used, well-maintained, water-cooled MIG-MAG welding machine Manufacturer: RÖWAG Model: KGL 450-2 Technical data: Welding current range up to 450 A Dcodpfshy Tmzox Akrjk Weight approx. 200 kg Accessories / Special features: - Water cooling - Separate wire feeder with 4-roller wire feed - Incl. hose set, pressure regulator and ground cable without the welding wire spool shown in the picture! Siegfried Volz Werkzeugmaschinen Rüschebrinkstr. 151-153 D - 44143 Dortmund-Wambel

Condition: used, MIG / MAG Pulse Inverter Shielded Gas Welding Machine FRONIUS Type TransPulsSynergic - TPS 330 Item No.: 4.075 Serial No. Year of manufacture: approx. 2000 Output: 330 amps = 50% duty cycle 300 amps = 60% duty cycle 210 amps = 100% duty cycle Infinitely adjustable output range Open-circuit voltage: approx. 50 volts / approx. 30 volts Power supply: 400 V, 50 Hz, 32 A plug - Digital display for voltage and current - Pulse welding function - Various welding programs selectable Welding processes: MIG/MAG/TIG (program and manual operation) 2-stroke, 4-stroke, 4-stroke special and spot welding - Separate 4-roller wire feed unit FRONIUS Type VR 152 with approx. 1.5 m connection hose package - 4 meter hose package NEW, with FRONIUS central connection - external Fronius water cooling unit Type FK 71 - Welding gas pressure reducer NEW - Equipped with 1.2 mm welding wire Required space (L x W x H): 900 x 660 x 1550 mm Weight: approx. 160 kg Good condition – fully functional – ready for demonstration Dcsdpfx Asyxy Tbskrsk Also suitable for TIG and electrode welding. Accessories for TIG and stick electrode welding are not included in the scope of delivery.

Condition: used, MIG MAG welding machine, gas-shielded welding unit, CLOOS type GLC 357 N MIG MAG welding power source Manufacturer's number: 576, Year of manufacture: approx. 1985 Rated power: 350 Amps Power: 350 Amps - 80% duty cycle 310 Amps - 100% duty cycle Adjustment range: stepless Connecting hose package: 4.5 meters Mains connection: 380 Volts, 50 Hz, 32 Amp plug - 2-cycle and 4-cycle welding system - external wire feeder, type CK 72 ZK, with 2-roller drive and 4.5-meter hose package - 3-meter hose package with central connection and CLOOS hand torch - water-cooled - pressure gauge for gas cylinder - welding machine equipped with 1 mm welding wire Space requirement L x W x H: 1250 x 600 x 1100 mm Weight: 260 kg Dcedpfohubg Tjx Akrek Device tested - function is working properly.

Condition: new, Year of construction: 2024, functionality: fully functional, type of input current: three-phase, total height: 690 mm, total width: 325 mm, total length: 890 mm, input voltage: 400 V, ground cable length: 3,000 mm, overall weight: 42 kg, warranty duration: 24 months, welding current at 60% duty cycle: 250 A, hello , we are the belgian importer of the Stayer range , we have a large stock of this item possible quantity price per 1 pc - 1800 € htva/pc per 3 pcs - 1440 € vat/pc per 10 pcs - 1080 € vat/pc Synergic MIG-MAG welding equipment, coated electrode and Spot. - Easy polarity reversal for hollow wire (flux core). - Two high-brightness displays for simultaneous monitoring of current and voltage with true real-time values. - Manufactured to strict European specifications 2014/35/EU, 2014/30/EU and 2011/65/EU and IEC 60974. Dodjuh A U Ajpfx Akreck - Suitable for 3x400 generators. Capable of handling ±17% voltage variations. - Professional wire feeder, with 60W motor, safe and stable transmission, suitable for large spools up to 15 Kg. Includes thread rollers grooves for 0.6 mm, 0.8 mm and 1 mm. Power rating 250 A Voltage 230 / 400 V Duty cycle 60 Coated electrodes 1.6 - 6.0 mm Wire thickness 0.6 - 0.8 - 1.0 mm Coil weight 5 - 15 kg For use with 12 KVA / 230V ±17% generator Dimensions 89 x 69 x 32.5 cm Weight 42 kg DINSE terminal 1/2" (35 - 50) ø 2m x 2.5 mm² power cable Cable + earth clamp 3m - 25 mm² Cable + electrode clamp 3m - 25 mm² MIG torch 25 AK Gas hose 3 m x2 (0.8 - 1.0) mm

Condition: good (used), Year of construction: 1998, machine/vehicle number: 0518018, Offer 24600 Technical data: Djdsvncfmopfx Akrjck - suitable for welding steel, aluminum, special metals, Cr Ni, etc. - welding current 450 A 60% ED - 360 A 100% ED - welding current adjustable from 3 A - 450 A - Synergic setting control FRONIUS - water cooling device FRONIUS - separate wire feed case - intermediate package device - wire feed case 14 linear meters - 4 rollers wire feed continuously adjustable - MIG - MAG hose package water-cooled approx. 4 linear meters - ground cable - pressure reducer - mobile base frame - connection 400 V / 6.6 A / 8.7 kVA - space requirement approx. W 650 x H 900 + 450 x D 1100 mm - weight approx. 200 kg

Condition: good (used), Year of construction: 1998, machine/vehicle number: 0618012, Offer 24604 Technical data: - suitable for welding steel, aluminum, special metals, Cr Ni, etc. Dcjdpfx Aovncubokrjk - welding current 450 A 60% ED - 360 A 100% ED - welding current adjustable from 3 A - 450 A - Synergic setting control FRONIUS - water cooling device FRONIUS - separate wire feed case - intermediate package device - wire feed case 1 linear meter - 4 rollers wire feed continuously adjustable - MIG - MAG hose package water-cooled approx. 4 linear meters - ground cable - pressure reducer - mobile base frame - connection 400 V / 6.6 A / 8.7 kVA space requirement approx. W 650 x H 900 + 450 x D 1100 mm - weight approx. 200 kg

Condition: good (used), Year of construction: 1998, machine/vehicle number: 0618019, Offer 24589 Technical data: - suitable for welding steel, aluminum, special metals, Cr Ni, etc. - welding current 450 A 60% ED - 360 A 100% ED - welding current adjustable from 3 A - 450 A - Synergic setting control FRONIUS - water cooling device FRONIUS - separate wire feed case - intermediate package device - wire feed case 14 linear meters - 4 rollers wire feed continuously adjustable Dcodpfevnb Tpjx Akrjk - MIG - MAG hose package water-cooled approx. 4 linear meters - ground cable - pressure reducer - mobile base frame - connection 400 V / 6.6 A / 8.7 kVA - space requirement approx. W 650 x H 900 + 450 x D 1100 mm - weight approx. 200 kg

Year of construction: 2007, condition: good (used), machine/vehicle number: 12641207, Offer 23108 Dcsdpfolzif Sjx Akrjk Technical data: - Welding current max. 550 A 60% ED - 420 A 100% ED - welding current adjustable 50 A - 550 A - 3 coarse levels + 12 fine levels - separate wire feed case with between package 4 m - 4 roller wire feed infinitely variable 0,5 - 24 m/min - 2 stroke + 4 stroke - regulation - water cooled hose package approx. 4 lfm - ground cable - pressure reducer - connection 400 V / 64 A - space requirement approx. W 550 x H 1310 x D 1050 mm - weight approx. 150 kg

Condition: good (used), Year of construction: 1998, machine/vehicle number: 0625004, Offer 24603 Dedpovncqvefx Akrock Technical data: - suitable for welding steel, aluminum, special metals, Cr Ni, etc. - welding current 450 A 60% ED - 360 A 100% ED - welding current adjustable from 3 A - 450 A - Synergic setting control FRONIUS - water cooling device FRONIUS - separate wire feed case - intermediate package device - wire feed case 10 linear meters - 4 rollers wire feed continuously adjustable - MIG - MAG hose package water-cooled approx. 4 linear meters - ground cable - pressure reducer - mobile base frame - connection 400 V / 6.6 A / 8.7 kVA - space requirement approx. W 650 x H 900 + 450 x D 1100 mm - weight approx. 200 kg

Condition: good (used), Year of construction: 1992, machine/vehicle number: 19703, Offer 22584 Technical data: - Welding current 320 A 60% ED - 270 A 100% ED - Welding current adjustable in 42 steps 40 A - 320 A - Digital volt + ampere display - Separate wire feed case with hose package approx. 1 lfm - intermediate package machine - wire feed case approx. 1,5 m - 4 roller wire feed steplessly adjustable - 2 stroke - 4 stroke - regulation - Spot welding - welding length / welding time adjustment - wire back firing adjustment - ground cable - pressure reducer - connection 400 V / 32 A / 18 kVA Dcsdpfxsp H Tu Eo Akrsk - Space requirement approx. W 550 x H 1200 x D 1100 mm - Weight approx. 300 kg

Condition: excellent (used), CONTEC-COMPRESSORS CEBORA 3840 TS WITH SYNERGIC WIRE FEED CONTROL, Dsdpfjd Hr Nlex Akrsck MAXIMUM WELDING CURRENT 380A, COOLING SYSTEM, 4-ROLLER WIRE FEEDER, 2-STROKE, 4-STROKE, FULL WIRING HARNESS. EQUIPMENT IN FULLY OPERATIONAL CONDITION. CONTEC-COMPRESSORS

Condition: excellent (used), Year of construction: 2019, functionality: fully functional, machine/vehicle number: 79115016, The welding robot was virtually never used, as it was no longer required for its intended application. Welding Robot System - CoWelder UR10 Migatronic 79115016 CoWelder UR10 IAC 400C Sigma Product: 79115016 CoWelder™ welding robot system, consisting of: - Universal Robots robotic arm (UR10) - Self-balancing table mounting unit - Migatronic Sigma SELECT 400 C-L Synergy - Welding power source, 400 A, air-cooled, - with graphical control panel, incl. IGC® (Intelligent Gas Control), standard program package (56 characteristic curves), - Function package (DUO Plus, Sequence, Sequence Repeat, Miga Job Control, MigaLog), IAC Intelligent Arc Control, 1.0V, Teflon liner, - Start/stop safety box - Complete cable set - Robotic welding torch including torch holder Dcsdpfx Asypbzmokrok - Robot control unit incl. operating panel - Freedrive button on the 3rd "wrist" - Pulse function

Condition: used, Welding fume filter, welding fume extraction, flexible extraction arm -Manufacturer: MIG O MAT, welding fume extraction -Extraction fan: Motor Elmot 1.1 kW Dsdpsk Aubqsfx Akrjck -Extraction arm: length 5700 mm -Tube: Ø 160 mm / inner Ø 145 mm, see photos -Transport dimension: 2900/100/H470 mm -Weight: 165.5 kg

Condition: used, Wire electrode, aluminum welding wire, aluminum welding wire, aluminum-magnesium alloy welding rod -Net weight: 7 kg -Number: 2x packages available -Price: per package -Weight: 7.6kg/package Dedpfx Ajchp Awjkrock

Condition: excellent (used), For sale: Professional industrial welding machine KEMPPI Kempomat 320 – a robust and reliable unit for MIG/MAG welding. Equipment from renowned Finnish manufacturer KEMPPI, known for its high quality and durability. 📋 Technical specifications: Model: KEMPOMAT 320 Welding current: up to 320 A Power supply: 3-phase (380V) Voltage range: approx. 15.5V – 30V Duty cycle: 320 A – 40% 265 A – 60% 205 A – 100% Protection class: IP23 Insulation class: H Cooling: Fan 📦 Included in the set: Dcjdpfx Aksyzt Rlerjk Kemppi Kempomat 320 welder Built-in wire feeder MIG/MAG welding torch Ground cable Gas cylinder with regulator Hose + wiring Transport trolley 🛠 Technical condition: Used equipment Shows normal signs of use (scuffs, scratches) Cosmetic condition as visible in the photos Complete wire feeder (visible inside) Sold as shown in the photos ✅ Advantages: Very durable construction (industrial gear) Easy operation and parameter adjustment Powerful – suitable for heavy-duty workshop tasks Mobile thanks to the transport trolley ⚠️ Additional information: Ideal for workshops, production plants, steel structure fabrication Possibility of pallet shipping Personal pickup or shipping possible

Condition: used, Shielding Gas Welding Machine MIG-O-MAT Type U 405 Serial No. Year of manufacture 1991 Output 400 amps = 60% duty cycle 280 amps = 100% duty cycle Adjustment range 18 steps Torch hose length 5 meters Power supply 380 V, 50 Hz, 32 amp plug - Spot and interval welding function Dcjdpfjyy Dfqex Akrsk - 2-stroke and 4-stroke welding functions - Wire feed with 2-roller drive - Water-cooled - Shielding gas pressure regulator - Supplied with 1.2 mm welding wire Dimensions L x W x H: 1300 x 500 x 900 mm Weight approx. 200 kg In good condition

Condition: as good as new (ex-display), ⭐ FRONIUS TPS 4000 ⭐ Fully equipped Device description/scope of delivery: Fronius TPS 4000 fully equipped device - you can't get more than this! - Pulse 400 Ampere power source - FK 4000 FC cooling unit with optional filter including flow control (==>if no water circulates, the device shuts down to protect the hose package). - VR 4000 with optional rollers underneath + long connecting hose package + metal feed rollers - only the best of the best. - Fronius Aw5000 hose package with Job Master function on the torch (==>display on the torch / amperes, job, feed, arc adjustable on the torch) Photo = scope of delivery. All prices quoted are starting from prices. Prices are calculated individually according to your configuration requirements. New price approx. €15,000 (net). We are offering it for 1/3 the new price. Not comparable to Transsteel junk. Why buy from us rather than from anyone else: - We are professionals when it comes to this Fronius welding machine series. We always have around 60-80 units in stock. Only these Fronius devices, not other manufacturers! - We don't just push the devices through; we disassemble them, test them, replace wear parts, and only sell them when everything is working perfectly. - All our devices are sold with the popular Fronius welding torches. NOT a 100-euro buy-it torch, but QUALITY! The Fronius welding torches cost between 650 and 900 euros net, depending on the configuration! - Our devices are "all" clean and don't have burn holes in the displays or countless burn holes/dents scattered throughout the device! You're buying an item from us that's worth seeing and doesn't look completely finished! - It's worth buying from us. - As our customer, you have the opportunity to obtain suitable spare parts and support at reasonable prices if necessary. - You will receive a proper invoice with VAT shown. All devices can be inspected, paid for, and picked up at our main warehouse in Vienna by appointment! Insured shipping on pallets is of course possible! All prices are starting from £100. You can configure the devices with us. Robot device or handheld device. Long or short connecting hose package. A wide variety of hose packages to choose from. Synchropuls. 270, 400, or 500 amp devices in stock. CMT version available as handheld or robot. Dedpfjvlwh Dox Akreck It's best to call us. We'll discuss your application and give you an initial price estimate.

Condition: good (used), Gas metal arc welding machine, arc welding machine, MIG/MAG welding machine, pulse welding machine, inverter welding machine, impulse welding machine -Manufacturer: Ess, MIG-MAG shielded gas welding machine -Type: E1-3300 Dcsdpfx Aozrt E Uekrok -Max. welding current: 330 A -Features: Water-cooled, remote control -Accessories: Hose assembly, ground cable (see photos) -Dimensions: 1020/520/H980 mm -Weight: 116 kg

Condition: used, SAF Seam Welder arm approx 4.3 m long. with SAF Nertamatic 300 TR Control, plasma TIG . Djdezh Rdyspfx Akrjck

Condition: refurbished (used), functionality: fully functional, type of input current: three-phase, input voltage: 380 V, ground cable length: 3,000 mm, type of cooling: water, welding current (max.): 420 A, ESAB Power Mig LAW 420W – Water-cooled MIG/MAG Refurbished, serviced, tested and ready for immediate use 3-month warranty Specifications: 420 AMP 380 Volt Water-cooled 2/4 Step / 4 Roller drive Burnbacktime adjustable End current Including: 4-metre welding torch, ground cable with clamp, gas hose, and 1-metre interconnecting cable. Visits by appointment only. Test welding is possible. A video of the machine in welding condition is possible. We also deliver to countries like Spain, Germany, Austria, Lithuania, Greece and all other countries inside and outside Europe with Euro pallets per freight. All our machines have been serviced and are 100% ready to use unless otherwise indicated. The pictures above show the real machine. We can also offer you other types of machines such as: Used, New, Mig, Mag, Co2, Tig, Pulse, AC/DC, Plasma, Water-cooled, Electrode, Brands we offer: OTC, Migatronic, Lincoln, Miller, Fronius, Kemppi, Parweld, Tico, Lorch, Rehm, Selco, Carl Cloos, Cebora, Esab, Saf, EWM, Ess, Kemper. Djdpfx Akozqywuereck You always do business with Cjays Lastechniek itself and never with third parties.